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 Pro Parents\Shadetree Son??
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JoBu
Member

373 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2012 :  15:37:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey folks...been a while since i posted, but i'm always checking to see what's going on.

Got a scenario for ya that i need some insight on. A buddy of mine is hosting his 3rd annual bbq contest. Its strictly backyard, no pros. So here's the deal: A good friend of many of the shadetree cookers at this event turned pro a few years ago. This year, he's proposing to have his son (age 12 i guess) to enter this shadetree only contest. I'm sure its under a different team name. However, i'm guessing that the son will use all of his dad's equipment: rub, sauce, smoker, etc.

My question is this: As pro cookers, how much "help" can the parents give their son in this contest? What would or should constitute a DQ for too much help? I mean, can the parents light the fire? Can they build the turn in box? Can they 'touch' the meat in any way? What could the parents do, that if you were cooking beside them and knew the situation, that would prompt you to go to the promoter with a complaint?

This cooking team is well known to most of the other teams that will be there and i'm concerned that someone will in fact challenge them for any appearance of help by the pro parents. It could very well get heated, so i'm trying to help my friend figure out now what is and what isn't permitted in this situation. Any comments you have would be greatly appreciated.

I'm cooking in this contest and good friends with everyone involved. I don't care if they register the son to cook...as long as he is the one cooking. I'm not going over and checking on them, but they'll be set up next to someone who may. I'm just trying to diffuse a situation before the grill gets lit.


JoBu
Stumps GF-223P
Brown Chicken Brown Cow
Roll On Tide, Roll On

mountainpitbbq
Member

China
3249 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2012 :  16:16:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I rarely compete and am only answering since nobody else has. Is it a sanctioned contest, even though it's backyard? Big prize money? Big entry fee? If not who cares, the kid's 12 years old, let him have fun, that's what backyard is all about

-Dave Putnam Valley NY Peoria Custom Cooker Backyard 24x48 w/ firebox grill NEBS member KCBS certified bbq judge
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JoBu
Member

373 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2012 :  18:14:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The contest isn't sanctioned and the prize\entry fee isn't all that big. Regardless of the money aspect, we want to make sure the contest isn't tainted by a pro-parent helping his shadetree son. In other words, the pro-parent cooking in the contest via his shadetree son. No one will care if the son cooks as long as its really him.

Yes, it just a shadetree event thats mainly a fund raiser, but there's nothing wrong with trying to establish some guidelines so if something is said, the organizer has some idea of what others think is out of line.

The question is not if the 12 year old can cook. There are no age requirements, so he's fine in that subject. I'm just trying to help the promoter when\if someone's sees the pro-parents doing something that they feel is above the unstated rules of helping.

I would have thought more cookers would have an opinion but perhaps its opening a can of worms.

JoBu
Stumps GF-223P
Brown Chicken Brown Cow
Roll On Tide, Roll On
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BILLYBONESBBQ
Moderator

USA
1707 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2012 :  14:20:46  Show Profile  Visit BILLYBONESBBQ's Homepage  Reply with Quote
AS YOU KNOW, I AM RELUCTANT TO SPEAK UP .. I AM WITH THE SCHOOL OF ..LET THE JIDS HAVE FUN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. IF DAD AND MOM MUST BE LITTLE LEAGUE ..WELL LET THEM AS THAY ARE DOING A GREAT DIS SERVICE TO THEIRCHILD. NOTHING SHOULD BE SO IMPORTANT, IN A CHILDS LIFE, AS TO CAUSE THE PARENTS INTERFERENCE. IF I WERE RUNNING THE SHOW I WOULD LET THE KIDS HANDLE ALL THEY FELT COMFORTABLE WITH AND GIVE THEM ALL A SMALL TROPHY .. NO FIRST NO SECONDS NO THIRDS. JUST A BIG THANKYOU FROM THE PROMOTERS TO ALL OF THEM FOR HELPING RAISE MONEY FOR THE BENEFITTING CHARITY .."PARENTAL HANDS OFF" SHOULD BE POLICY UNLESS REQUESTED BY THE CHILD..PARENTS SHOULD TRAVEL ALL THE YOUNG COMPETITORS BOOTHS WISHING THEM "GOOD LUCK" AND WELCOMING THEM TO THE FRIENDLIER SKY'S OF BBQ ..

locate billy in Red Keg, michigan - half way between Paradise and Hell
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SWATPigBBQ
Member

USA
288 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2012 :  21:45:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will throw in my fiddy cents on this also. I personally love seeing children at the competitions and I look forward to the time when my two daughters will start showing interest in it or maybe not. I think it is great a child would want to participate and I am sure if the guy has gone pro the kid probably has cooked with him several times. They boy probably wants to graduate from being the one stealing little tender vittles from dads cutting board and now would like to have his time in the spot light. I would say the parents should probably cruise around and talk to other people and let the boy do work! Maybe he has a friend or someone else has another child who can also aid him and they can make their own team up. Let the kid be the head cook and dad can socialize and get tooted. If the kids does well then it will light a fire in him, if he doesn't do well it still might light a fire to improve. He is old enough to understand.

Jeremy from Missouri the REAL home of BBQ!

CBJ-KCBS.
SWAT Pig BBQ Team!
American Barbecue Systems "Judge" Pit
"The true test of BBQ is not the amount of people who love your BBQ because it is free but it is the ones who have to pay for it and still enjoy it."
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BigOrangeSmoker
Member

USA
5267 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2012 :  07:09:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
JOEL FIRST OF ALL GOOD TO SEE YOU AT LEAST FEELING LIKE POSTING AGAIN,BUT TO YOUR QUESTION ITS SIMPLE LET THE KID ENJOY HIMSELF AND IF THE PARENT IS A TRUE PRO HE WILL SET BACK AND WATCH SO WHAT IF HE USES DADS RECIPES AND COOKER.I TRIED TO GET CHRIS TO MAKE THIS A OPEN CONTEST I THINK HE'D GET BETTER RESPONSE FROM SPONSORS AND ALL.GOOD LUCK AND I'LL SEE YA ON THE TRAIL


Off The Sauce Cookers


Stump Stretch
Orange Nation
Huntsville,Alabama
Eat A Pig Save A Farmer
phil.white@comcast.net
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porkchop
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2012 :  12:33:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There seems to be a little jealousy on the part of some of the so called shadetree teams. If this person is so concerned about my grandson cooking with a person that has never cooked a contest why didn't he have enough guts to call me and ask me about it. It is apparently evident that this person and some other people as well are scared of a 12 year old boy and a person that has never cooked a contest and afraid they might win something. This person should think back about some of his own experiences at contest. Not only that people should stay in there own site and not walk around and try and find out what everyone else is doing and do there own thing.YES I am pissed and like I said if he is so concerned he can call me and talk to me instead putting it out all over the world. Purely scared. Porkchop
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porkchop
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2012 :  12:46:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I sincerely hope this person talking about my grandson is not speaking for other people. There are alot of shadetree teams that should be moving up to pro but don't have the guts to do so, afraid you can't cook with them. They are good enough to cook with them and they should move up and see just how good you really are. Don't be a professional shadetree cook. Also my grandson has be around BBQ since he was a baby and I am proud he wants to try his hand at it. Maybe he will beat somebody!!!!!!!!!
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bbqbrad
Starting Member

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2012 :  14:59:02  Show Profile  Visit bbqbrad's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Huh?

Brad Maffett
Head Cook & Bottle Washer
Hot For Teacher BBQ
hotforteacherbbq.com
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JoBu
Member

373 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2012 :  21:05:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let me see if can remedy this thread.

I was asked by the promoter of the Gurley cookoff (Chris) my thoughts on letting a 12 year old son (Massey) of a pro cooking team (Jim and Kelli) enter and cook in what would be his first shadetree event. The contest rules state that it is shadetree ONLY and nobody who has been a part of pro team in the past year can be on the cooking team of a shadetree team nor be involved in the prep, cooking or presentation of the product.

My initial response what that i don't have a problem with Massey cooking. I'm good friends with Massey, Chris, JimJim , Kelli and Mr. Jim (Porkchop). In fact, i owe most of the bbq knowledge i have to JimJim and Mr.Jim. They have each helped me by offering tips and suggestions that, over the years , have greatly increased my scores and thus trophies. These tips typically came from before or after events as we discussed what i scored. They have helped me greatly and i have nothing but respect for their family.

The topic was presented to me by Chris in the context that JimJim was going to enter Massey in the Shadetree division. There was no mention if Massey was going to be a one-man team or if he was going to cook with another team. I "read" into the situation as if Massey was going to cook by himself and not with another team. With me thinking that was going to be the case, i immediately saw where there could be problems if JimJim, Kelli or Mr. Jim did something that may appeared to "helped "Massey that another team would consider a violation of the basically un-written rule that pro-cooks can help shadetree cooks during a competition. The accusing team would go then to the Promoter, Chris, explain what they "saw" and ask Chris if this was indeed acceptable or not. I am not implying in any stretch of the imagination that the Tolens would do anything in violation of the rules. But if another team is "watching" Massey, they don't have to actually see a possible violation. All they have to do is "think" they saw something, talk among themselves until its the gospel and then run to Chris with a complaint.

I know there are no written rules or guidelines covering this since KCBS doesn't even acknowledge us shadetree folks, but i was thinking there has to be some established guidelines floating around the shadetree world that may address this. So i posed the question to you members of the forum in hopes of getting some feedback. Still chasing that wild goose...

But as stories unfold, so do some little facts that make things clearer. After talking with JimJim, it seems that Massey is, and was all the time going to be a team member of another team who wanted to cook in Gurley. They are also a first year team!! If that simple fact had been known at the beginning, nothing would have been said.

But i mistakenly assumed Massey was a one-man team and some of the more ruthless teams out there may trying to get him DQed if JimJim as much as handed him a paper towel. I'm pretty sure none of the teams who know Massey would have had a second thought about it, but i wasn't worried about them. I was worried about the teams who take this stuff way to seriously and will raise a red flag at the drop of a hat. And there are some out there.

So i was simply using the BBQ Forum as a place to post a question in hopes of helping to protect Chris, the GRC BBQ Cook Off and Massey if something would have came up. No intentions of mine were to find a way to keep Massey from cooking. I would help Massey all i could if he needed anything. Part of the fun we have is cooking. A bigger part to me is helping someone who is just starting out. People helped me and i think its only right that i help others. Makes it easier if they offer a beer...just saying.

As i have explained on other social media sites, my intentions were not to paint anyone on the Tolen family as trying to cheat or bend the rules. I have too much respect for them as a family and as cookers. I was simply trying to arm Chris with some ammunition in case a disgruntled team said something and wanted immediate answers. I was not, in no way, shape, form or fashion downgrading the ethics of the Tolens to the level that they would help Massey during the competition just to see him in a contest. That does no one any good, especially Massey. I know JimJim wouldn't do it cause he's not that kind of a person. He always offered to come to my house during practice runs to help me. But my grill and all the other equipment was off-limits to him during a comp. His rules.
I asked a question on the forum without all the details but in the honest hope of trying to help out Chris, my buddy run a good contest and at the same time, possible help protect Massey if a team says they "saw something" (falsely) and ran to Chris with it. By hopefully supplying Chris with as much info as i can, he could intelligently discuss the rules (however un-written they made be) with any teams questioning such things.

There may be at least one other team in this cookoff who has a cook that also cooks sometimes in the pro side. Just found this out or i guess i would have used these teams as an example. These teams will be watched and if there appears to be a violation of any rules, Chris will be the ultimate judge and wants to know the proper methods to handle this.

Finally, i caused Mr. Tolen great anger with my post in this Forum. For that, i am truly sorry. There was no intentions of insinuating anyone would cheat nor was i trying to cast a shadow on the great achievements that he and his family have accomplished. To JimJim, my intentions were honest even though i may have taken to the wrong path to seek the answers. I'm sorry for the heartache i caused you. I'll have some extra cheap beer in my cooler just for us to sip on and forget about all this. To Massey, my first and consistent response on the question about if you should cook was a "yes". I hope you do cook and have a great time. But if you get called, you have to wear my severed pig head mask across the stage.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this. I know its long, but after talking to JimJim and seeing how i made Mr. Tolen angry, I felt compelled to try and offer my apologies to those effected by what i did. I would never do anything to jeopardize the friendship i have with the Tolens. And if i did do something stupid, i would do all i can to patch the remains back together and build it back again.

(During my continuing battle with cancer this fall and winter, the bbq family that i have been lucky enough to get to know have been very consistent with their warm thoughts, cherished prayers and comments. So i do understand the power of the bbq family and i want to keep being a part of it)


JoBu
Stumps GF-223P
Brown Chicken Brown Cow
Roll On Tide, Roll On
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porkchop
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2012 :  18:40:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Joel, but the mistake you made was putting it on the world wide forum. I have had calls from the bbq community asking who this guy thinks he is. It's really gonna be eye opening if some of these other teams do go pro because the people over here do help each other. There's a bond there that you don't find as being a professional backyard cook. The purpose of the backyard has gotten way away from what it was supposed to be, a fun cook off like a backyard event. Thanks again for clearing this mess up but stay off the forum and call us if you need to know anything. GO MASSEY AND BILLY.
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